FRONTLINE's The Suicide Plan. Aired: 11/13/2012 running time: 01:23:41
http://video.pbs.org/video/2304058290/
This directly pertains to our class discussions. Does anyone want to watch it and perhaps summarize for class?
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Can anyone rationally choose suicide? Don't we have a self-preservation instinct? How should we account for cultural variation in types and rates of suicide?
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Suicides Mounting, Golden Gate Looks to Add a Safety Net - NYTimes.com
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Suicidal Tendencies Are Evident Before Deployment, Study Finds - NYTimes.com
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/03/04/science/suicidal-tendencies-are-evident-before-deployment-study-finds.html?referrer=
I believe that this is happening because of the fear of the "Unknown". The soldiers are afraid of what can happen, what they may see, and the thought of not seeing their families. This is a worrisome thing because it makes recruits afraid, and gets them to start thinking about the bad things.
ReplyDeleteI was a US Army soldier faced with deployment. When I went through boot camp and AIT it was what you thought it was. Rough conditions, drill sgt's screaming so close to you you could feel the spit on your face. I did more push ups than I care to share. I was given an M16, a grenade and expected to know when, how and why to use it. You are fighting for your life and your buddy's life standing next to you. That's what I was there for and that's what I was going to do. There is no thinking. You are a soldier, a robot. When this happens, you do this. You don't think twice, you do it.
ReplyDeleteA lot has changed since then.
Our culture has changed. The military was once known as something you do when you aren't smart enough to go to college. That saying doesn't seem to apply anymore. More applicants and recruits are educated. Older people are enlisting. With TV and media we can now see and appeal to the senses of the soldiers who are coming back with no arms or legs, receiving traumatic brain injuries and not to mention the ones who don;t come back alive, but only bits and pieces of them. Faced with deployment I can understand why this happening.
As a former soldier myself, however, I think the military is changing and pacifying boot camp because of the injuries recruits were receiving during training.(you are given a card....when you are feeling "too stressed out you wave your card and you get a break...total and complete nonsense. That card does not apply in Afghanistan when the enemy has a weapon in your face.)
You have to first question why you are there. You are there to fight for your country. Secondly, the potential to die is there. That's why you are trained the way you are trained.
I fail to understand why someone would sign up to do something they aren't prepared to do. Perhaps the recruiters need to take a second look at the recruit process. Maybe the military needs to emphasize there is the potential for death in the brochure they hand to you and your parents when you sign up. I knew all of these things going in and I was ok with it. I know in my job now as a firefighter there is the potential to die. I'm ok with that. I was trained very well to hopefully not die, but if something should happen and I do, I am ok with that.
This article presents some interesting evidence about the psychological aspects of deployment. I would disagree however on these people already having the idea of suicide before deployment. I would say that if I were to be a member of our military and got the news I was being deployed I would have the natural reaction to think about death. For some these thoughts may even begin when they first enlist in the military. During wartime in the Middle East the possibility of death as an American soldier is prevalent. Therefore I think it is almost impossible as a person going into these war situations to not think about death and suicide because of the many different situations that can arise.
ReplyDeleteIt's interesting to hear Melissa's viewpoint on the subject considering she has been in this exact situation. I agree with everything she said about the softness of basic training today. If you're entering a combat situation I would want to be trained as if I were actually in the situation, being given a 'card' to wave when things got too tough is completely unrealistic.
Abby, I think what they are saying is that those who have suicidal tendencies after returning from deployment had some type of suicidal thoughts/tendencies before they enlisted. I do not think the author meant to say that most of them had the idea before deployment.
DeleteAbby i do agree the article presented some interesting finding in regards to the psychological aspects of deployment. I don't think that people have suicidal tendencies before they deploy. i feel its more or less after the fact they get back from deployment because they develop those suicidal tendencies after seeing all the war and sickening things that war brings to them. Knowing that you can possibly die at any point int time during your tour can drive almost anyone to the brink of insanity which at that point and time they could develop some tendencies. i agree also that basic training is not like is used to be back during the the World Wars being trained as if tomorrow were the first day of war. In an environment that is always overwhelmed by death no individual no matter how strong could resist thinking about suicide or even death for even a second. You begin to think that maybe tomorrow i could be the next one and then it grabs you into its clutches and never lets go.
DeleteHave any of you served? I think like much of what we spoke about this semester it's difficult to fully grasp a situation unless you are in it. It the military, no matter the branch, you are away from your family. All of the sudden you are surrounded by strangers being called every name in the book and beating your face on the concrete (doing push ups.) You very quickly bond with those around you. These same people you have instantly become family with are the same that go out to battle with you, the same you may see blown to bits.I was 22 when I finished my terms of service and returned to civilian life. For someone of that age to see their best friend blown to bits, to grasp the situation as a whole; why they are there, what's the point of the war, why did they decide to enlist, all of that running through their minds can be extremely overwhelming, sometimes to the point of giving up. Again, you don't have access to your family back home when you are stationed half way across the world. My best friend was deployed to Iraq four years ago. I served with her at Ft Leavenworth in 1996. Prior to her deployment she was the same ol girl I had befriended and loved. When she returned she was not the same person. She is still not the same person to this day. She contemplated suicide several times. Thankfully she has a very large support system and is fine now. People contemplating suicide go to the deepest darker parts of their brains. It is a severe depressive disorder that a lot of people don;t understand nor can scientists study it to extent because the people they need to study are already dead. It's a phenomenon we may never fully understand. However, if you know of anyone contemplating, even stating they need help, don;t be afraid to call 911 or tell someone in authority you trust. It's better to be safe than sorry.
DeleteI have never served myself but my fiance has. After coming home, many things in his life change having to do with his family. I have always tried being there for him but he never has been the same. In a recent conversation between the two of us he was really upset and asked me if it was bad if he wished he never came home. We talked for hours discussing these feelings and he is doing better. It is a very hard situation when someone has seen so much in their life and is only 22 years old. I understand to a point of where you are coming from with your friend though. I do not think it is an easy situation by any means though. I agree that everyone needs to find help for someone no matter the circumstances because people are not always in their right mind.
DeleteThese soldiers are some of the bravest and most intelligent people in the world. I think that the rate of suicide for soldiers is extremely high because they constantly have the thought of death in the back of their minds. As soon as they enlist to be in the military, they know that they will have to put their lives on the line to defend this country. They know that they will have to kill other humans. So death is always present within the military. These soldiers who put their lives on the line have came to peace with the idea of death. I think a combination of these thinks makes it easier for soldiers to decide they no longer want to live when they come out of the military. That and the fact that some have seen or experienced things which basically scar them for life. It's extremely sad to see so many brave men and women break like this after they have fulfilled their duties.
ReplyDeleteNick, it's also due to the fact that after deployment a soldier has to wait months to get an appointment with mental health. It's absurd how long they have to wait after what they've been through which has skyrocketed suicide rates.
DeleteMelissa, I completely agree. It shouldn't take weeks/months to get appointments. The increased waiting time to see a professional only makes conditions worse and, like you said, leads to the increased suicide rates.
DeleteI also agree with what Melissa has stated. My dad was in the military during Desert Storm and told me some stories about how rough it can be. It is crazy how long it can take for the soldiers to get treatment from his fellow citizens after serving to protect them.
DeleteIt is so sad knowing how long it takes for a soldier to see someone. After being through so much, they need help right away. If they do not get help right away it could greatly increase the suicide rates when it could have easily been prevented.
DeleteI found this article to be very interesting. I think that if armed forces tried to screen for impulsive anger or other mental issues prior to enlisting, many people would hide these problems, leading to far greater problems in the future. Additionally, I believe there needs to be WAY more support offered to those soldiers who have returned home from deployment so they know they are not alone in what they are going through (suicidal thoughts) and what they went through with deployment.
ReplyDeleteAlexis, I agree that more support needs to be given to these soldiers. If a soldier hides his feelings after coming home then he will just be over looked. Every soldier needs to be examined no matter what the circumstances are because it will prevent suicides in the future.
DeleteI agree that it is a bad thing that they have to wait so long to see mental heath specialist but unless other people step up and become mental health specialist that is always going to be the case. I completely understand why they are in a bad mental state because they experienced the most intense thing that someone can experience. There are groups that are set up to take vets out to do rock climbing or skydiving to try to give the vets the rush they got when surviving but there is no rush that is greater then having a bullets fly by your head. Unfortunately there is really not go answer.
DeleteThe effort didn't begin until, "after the suicide rate among active soldiers rose above the civilian rate among young healthy adults for the first time." I find this to be a troubling thought in the article. There was only special attention brought to light when the suicide rate raised above the "norm." When and where will the rate of suicide in any situation be acceptable when there are direct causes. Why did the effort begin after rather than a preventative measurement to make sure this didn't. I think its great they are doing something now but what about then? Why the special attention now?
ReplyDeleteI agree with you Chris. It is shocking to find out this information now because it has just risen beyond the norm. I feel like society doesn't notice things like this until it reaches an extreme, therefore beyond the norm. Your comment makes me think about the accidental suicides that happened when teenagers and young adults strangled themselves in order to get a high. We had no idea about this until there were several deaths rather than just one. I feel like our society puts things off to the side and waits for things to reach an extreme.
DeleteMy brother has been in the Marine's every since I can remember. He went to Iraq for one of his tours and when he came back he was on suicide watch for 72 hours and was not allowed to leave the base for a month afterwards. He is not able to tell us what happened to him during that trip and everyday I wonder what happen. My husband is ex-Navy and he has seen two guys he went all through basic training with commit suicide right after basic was over. The suicide rates of the military should be looked at but I don't think it should have been in the dark for as long as it has been. The mental professionals the military needs for the vets is a huge number and what they currently have is not near enough. It is sad to me that we give more attention to criminals and not for our soldiers.
ReplyDeleteI, myself, have never served in the military, so I can only imagine the despair that these men and women may see and may also go through themselves. From being away from your family, to seeing those around you die in some instances, I can only imagine the mental states these people may be in. Often times it may be fear of the unknown as well when these soldiers finish basic training and the fears that they have only vaguely had are now becoming an inevitable reality. Clearly, screenings need to be done and mental health care should be provided almost instantly if needed. However, this is not the case. I just read today that the US spends nearly 5x what China does on the military annually. Us is concerned to have the #1 military in the world followed be China at #2. You would think with over 600 billion spent, better care could be provided to thus risking their lives for our country. But this is just a cruel reality.
ReplyDeleteHaving never served in any branch of the military I cannot begin to comprehend what stress and anxiety they are faced with on a day to day basis. However as this article stated most suicidal tendancies are preexhisting the soldier's deployment and that the stress and constant fear of death can make these tendancies come to life with the with the aggressive nature soldiers learn to adapt in deployment. Although this is the case I feel that our country could do more to support those who knowingly volunteer for active service in combat, especially on the in the mental and psychological realm.
ReplyDeleteHaving seen some go through just basic training is scary how many think about suicide.During basic they not only prepare physically but mentally as well. The soldiers are taught what to do and that death is a strong possibility. When coming home from over seas these soldiers have seen not only fellow soldiers die but the enemy as well. Death has to take a huge toll on them and when they get home they all need to have a mental screening no matter what the circumstances are. I think if are country took a better interest in this issue, many soldiers would not have committed suicide and it would also prevent many from committing suicide.
ReplyDeleteI've known quite a few people who have served in the military. And what I say has no direct correlation with my opinion of what current military members and veterans do or have done. But, in relation to the article about suicide rates and mental illness being disproportionately high in the military, I'm not shocked. Factor out the obvious triggers for them: away from home and family, having their minds broken and reformed to function in high stress situations, etc.
ReplyDeleteI'll be the person to say it. A lot of people who are in the military now are people who have no where else to go (cue the cliche). We have been at war for so long now that TPTB are now accepting people who decades before would have been borderline or completely unfit. They are sold on the idea of bettering their lives and becoming a part of something. When those dreams fade and they're left with the withering reality of war and isolation, a lot of them can't hack it. The military isn't a never-ending patriotic movie. There are harsh and unavoidable outcomes for every single person who wears the uniform. All of that coupled with a complete lack of support for those serving and exiting military service leads to inevitable disaster. I don't think any of those suicides makes them any less of a citizen, soldier, or human being. It means that society is living in delusional times and refusing to acknowledge the true costs of actions.
Personally i do believe that we all have a instinct of preservation. Take the fight or flight response for example. You choice one or the other because you believe that its your best odds to survive. That being said, we also have an instinct to be in a community. To be surrounded by people who you love and who love you. If you don't have this, some people will think they don't belong here and they only have one choice. Unfortunately this happens with people who have served. So many people can't get back to this type of life and feel lost in their life now. They feel hopeless almost. We just have to hope that someone is able to reach out to someone who feels like this before its to late.
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